Screw Holes Showing - Drywall

Hi guys, I just finished painting a 1700 sq. ft. home that I had hired a local guy to train one of my helpers to tape , and after we finished painting, we noticed every screw hole is showing (divits at every hole). My guy says that when the taper mixed the mud to fill the screw holes, he mixed the mud really thin, and I understand that is a no no. The taper is not taking any responsibility for this screwup and is expecting me to cover all costs of repairing this, saying that amateurs did the job and he is not responsible, even though his man mixed the mud, went over the screw holes personally the last time, and was the trainer of the job.
I don't know a whole lot about taping so I am not sure what went wrong with the application.
What does the drywallers' code of ethics say should be done?

Don't have all the answers,
but in forty years I've heard
a lot of the lame excuses.
It's the finisher's fault,
or the painter's fault, but
it ain't the paint's fault.

Fine, don't take egg-shell seriously.
Blame it all on the finisher
Assume its someone else fault

Kind of a pattern here....

I hang, finish and paint,,,,,,, but since I'm from the South and talk like Gomer Pyle,,,, what they hell do I know.

I guess if i was from NYC, I'd know something

Think about it. I have problly seen more drywall and paint than alot of you guys,,, just cause I was doing this since God was a corprol

Next time you run into this problemm,,,, first find out what primer was used and then what kind of paint was used.

I could be wrong,,,, but I'm not !!

Why is it then, that this is not
a problem for me?

You seem to want to pick a fight about this Neo, or is that Nero

Drywall mud is NOT sealed, you can take a wet cloth and wipe it from the wall.

IF you wet it and LEAVE it wet for a LONG period of time, the mud will do wierd stuff.

I guess the reason you have never come across this problem,,, is you obviously KNOW so much that you never EVER have to check anything out.

Good enough answer for ya ???

I see your problem then.
You don't let your mud dry,
and you don't prime before
you paint.

Haveing 10,000 more post than anyone else, is no excuse for being a jerk.

LOL I 2nd this Frank! Around here the F'n painters will try to just spray the houses (Prime & Finish coats) & NOT backroll & when it all shows blame the Finishers.
Now, It's hard for me to listen to someone who isn't a "Drywall" tradesman making comments like they know WTF they are talking about. I believe you Capt & my comments have NOTHING to do with the original post. I always spot my screws 3 times with THICK mud & they only showed on the 2 jobs that were, #1 painted using a spray rig. #2 Had either eggshell or semi-gloss paint used. Now, if anyone here thinks that mud on the wall won't shrink any further when exposed to moisture for prolonged periods must be on Crack.

well then, being that you are not a painting contractor...what then do you know about paint or painting? can I discount anything you have to say about my primary trade because you are not a "decorative and protective coatings specialist?"
even if a guy used egg shell as his prime coat, it really doesn't take that much longer for it to dry up than a primer anyway... especially over the raw drywall.
honestly, how often does this really happen? often enough to argue over?
if 95 out of 100 jobs don't have this happen, then is it possible that maybe the taper tried to save a step or forget to third coat the screw holes? simple fact of human nature is that no one wants to take ownership of a problem.
Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the Serpent. As a fallen race, it is in our DNA.
if this is really a problem out there for some, it is an isolated problem and certainly not an industry problem.
I think that most tapers can speak pretty intelligently about painting and vice versa. They are sister trades so you can mellow out on the "you don't know WTF you'r talking about" stuff.

I never stated that I "was" a painter but I "can" paint, can you hang & finish an entire job?
The drywall has nothing to do with it as it will absorb moisture rather quickly it's the MUD that's shrinking, not the drywall.
Apparently you have ADD & didn't read my entire post. My statement has NOTHING to do with the original post but my personal experience. I'm sure the original poster on page 1 has a thinned down mud problem. But I have coated screws with 3 I say it again THREE coats of THICK I say it again THICK mud & they still showed through. Now this only happened on jobs that were painted with eggshell & semi-gloss finish coatings.
I don't have to mellow out on , if I remember correctly we have freedom of speech. Anyways if the poster of the BS comments was a full time "Painter" or "Drywall" guy maybe it would be OK to speak so arrogantly.

We've had no problems with the majority of painting contractors that use quality primers and paint. It seems whenever there are issues, its some fly by night painter using watered down primer(flat white latex paint) and not back rolling.

It is very strange sometimes...........same drywall,same mud,same finisher and 1 house out of 100 the screws show. And it happens to be that new wannabe painter.

Or,the finisher screwed up

Why wouldn't you use Durabond brown bag for your bedcoat for your tape and screws then theres no problem with srinkage
then finish up with your plus 3 or wahtever you like for your last two coats
As for Painters in New construction well the Builders let these guys spray their houses and the paint job turns out to look like crap, When I worked New HOmes Painters were to FIX ALL TRADES messes. That's why Painters are a dime a dozen anymore, Blow and Go is not a True Painter
So I would blame the Builders for this crap

meatballs,
I know it's a free country.
I can hang and finish and paint a house, and get paid for it. But as a rule I make my hay as a Painter.
I am also fully aware that the "shrinking mud" is the issue at hand here. When I referred to raw drywall, I did mean the finished drywall product as a whole (both the mudded and unmudded portions). I'm sorry that I didn't take into consideration that I was dealing with a bunch of lawyers.
My only point is:
Can paint somehow occasionally shrink mud on the screw holes while not shrinking it anywhere else, also while only happening so rarely that most guys on the taping or painting side of the business have never experienced this.
If you say so Meatballs, then YES it is possible.....just not likely and certainly not frequently enough to be accepted by most and I do mean most.
....or since it is an absolute impossibility that it could be a finishers error that would cause such a problem. could it be a tapers mud as opposed to a painters paint? I guess we'll never know.
Nice jousting fellas, have a great day at work. I have to go price a few jobs out now.

I guess that's why I tend to prime all my jobs after finishing...or come back after its primed by the painter...I light test again, touch up and perfection is achieved

HTML Code:
Fussy work makes a great impression

If you finsh a house right,,, then it sits for a month before the painters get there. The mud on the wall will swell and do all kinda wierd things,

SO

Is it the painters fault or the drywallers fault???

If mud left just sitting on the wall DOES wierd stuff, would you say its cause there is not enough mud there????

If mud is left on the wall for a month and when the painter primes it, and realizes that the paper and the mud joints recieve the paint differantly,,, is it the drywallers fault ????

Really, there is ALOT more to this topic that "perfect" apllication methods

you're probably right Cap,
if everyone had done their job properly and this has/ can/ may happen from time to time, though it be a rare occurrence. then it truly probably is some kind of freak chemical reaction and isn't really anyones fault.

With all due respect...Excuses are like @$$holes, everyone has one...Do the job right, be proactive with your finish product and your rep will look good...you can blame it on temperature, blame it on moisture, blame it on the framer, the foundation guy and so on...

All these people in here talking about short cuts with 45 mixed with plus 3 etc...if your taking chances going against manufacturer specifications or sinkinking your screws too deep or skipping steps while taping cause its faster...shame on you if you make excuses when you get a call back

You can act like a pro, talk like a pro, dress like a pro...that dont make you a pro...results do Anything other than that, please call the Whambulance

Whambulance

LOL If I was a lawyer I wouldn't be in this forum, Id be lying in court for some A Hole that keeps breaking the law.
If it was my fault I would be fixing it with no questions. I have hung & finished for 20 years & always spotted 3 times with thick mud & no problems. So what's changed? I'm not saying it couldn't be the mud as it may very well be. It could very well be both the mud & the paint.
FYI I never cut corners, Period. I don't fit that bill & I don't call the Whambulance either. I'm just making it known just as Capt is about personal experience. So since you guys are DryWall GOD's I guess you don't have any problems ever.

FYI I never cut corners, Period. I don't fit that bill & I don't call the Whambulance either. I'm just making it known just as Capt is about personal experience. So since you guys are DryWall GOD's I guess you don't have any problems ever. [/quote]

I use too until I figured out that faster is not better...Only 1 call back in 10 years...I learned fast

This is what I do: 1st coat, spot the hole...2nd coat cover all spots full length of the field, like you were taping a joint...3rd coat, widen it to 6 inches and wipe it clean...it should look like all your other joints only lighter on the mud so you dont have to sand much, just feather the edges and smooth out the rest. when sanding.

Dont know if thats helpful, but thats my advice Bro, it takes more time, but you will never see a divit again

Appreciate the advice bro but that basically how I do it all the time & I still saw small divits. I spot 2 coats with a 5' & the last is with a 6' to cap it off with thick mud all 3 times. I'm not trying to rustle any ones feathers about the issue by no means, so no offence to anyone. I'm just making it known that using the same system for a long time has failed on a couple jobs & me & the Capt are not full of . Well, maybe sometimes I am the king of BS but that's a different story for another time. Have a good Easter week-end folks! Hope you all find the "Golden" egg!

know its an old post but some things add up here.
only seen this once. usually texture walls and ceilings. this time i left 2 rooms flat. stood for about a week after applying roc ceil and then primed. 1 dimple showed up. applied semi gloss hp2000 paint and every screw in those 2 rooms showed up. the mud wasn't thick, it was on the thin side and it got 3 coats. but the dimples showed up after 1 coat of paint. you saw 1 after the primer. house was checked with light before priming and everything was in order. just sayin a lot of the things mentioned add up. now whose fault is it. its a mystry.

after the primer coat, any defects should have been repaired @ that point.

Also, If the screws were set to far and breached the paper.
There will alway's be a dimple.

-Paul

haha, shouldnt laugh but damn right. its to late. how can a whole house be painted without this being noticed?? bad luck painter its your problem mate.

wow, this looks familiar there is another company in our area that does this type of shoddy work, and we hear people complaining about our pricing... get a grip....you get what you pay for...regardless. If you are going to train someone, you still are responsable for the finished quality...its your name on the end of the project.
Also if you paint it you accept it... there are tell tail signs that there would be a problem...you must have over looked these signs...starting from priming stage on...
In my opinion you hired a guy to train one of your workers to take work from him....of course his give a damn will be busted...at the end its you who will look bad, as you sub'd to him...its your name....you screwed up to start, now you fix the problem, and let it be a lesson to you for the future....
If you want someone to teach a worker, done be so cheap and put him in school.

If the OP didn't see this problem after the first coat of primer, then it's his responsibility in my opinion.

Read the Gypsum Associations recommended levels of drywall finishing. This is why we have them so everyone is on the same page for drywall finishes and what level you are willing to pay for. Ist and foremost, no semi-gloss or gloss including eggshell is to be applied to a less than level 5 finish according to the Gypsum Association of America unless it has been properly primed and textured. that is the only exception for these same problems you are experiencing. Secondly, there is no spec that allows anyone to shine 500-watt halogen lights down a wall and say it looks like crap. Of course, it looks like crap but that is not the way you are going to see the wall in normal lighting. Spec calls for placing a light 8 feet away from the wall and then shine it directly at the wall not down it, Big difference. However, in some instances, the lighting will call for some extensive more work. The taper might have done a good job for what his understanding of what you wanted. What did you want? What did you agree to with him? Did all parties agree to a certain level?

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